Fireflies

References

• Franz Kafka
• The Metamorphosis
• Great Smoky Mountains National Park
• The Great Smoky Mountains Firefly Viewing Lottery
• The Good Place
• Firefly
• Bluey
• Almost Plausible: Flashlight
• Pokémon
• Encanto
• Harry Potter
• The Wizard of Oz
• Back to the Future
• Women in Refrigerators
• Hamlet
• Por que no los dos!

Transcript

[Intro music begins]

[Thomas]
Was it Great Aunt Ruth? Is that who we said was the hummingbird person?

[Shep]
I don’t know if we gave her a name. Did we give her a name? Someone listen to the-

[Emily]
We did.

[Thomas]
We did, but I don’t think we paid super close attention to it. Let’s say it was Great Aunt Ruth.

[Shep]
All right.

[Thomas]
And, uh… I’m really tempted to just record ‘Great Aunt Ruth’ and put that back. No context, so that we’re talking normally, and then all of a sudden, it’s just ‘Great Aunt Ruth’. And then people are like, “What?”

[Emily]
“What?”

[Shep]
But see, they keep listening, and they get to this part where you explain it, and they’re like, “Okay, this is one of their time travel episodes.”

[Emily]
Yep.

[Intro music]

[Thomas]
Hey there, story fans. Welcome to Almost Plausible, the podcast where we take ordinary objects and turn them into movies. I’m Thomas J. Brown, and I have with me Emily-

[Emily]
Hey, guys.

[Thomas]
And F. Paul Shepard.

[Shep]
Happy to be here.

[Thomas]
The object for today’s episode is not so ordinary. At least that’s the case where we live. We’re creating a movie pitch based on Fireflies or lightning bugs, depending on your region.

[Emily]
It’s lightning bugs. Anything else is wrong.

[Thomas]
Well, I’ve only ever seen fireflies once in my life when I took a trip to the east coast of the United States, and they were so cool to see, and I’m frankly a little sad that we don’t have them here. What have been your guys’ experiences with fireflies?

[Shep]
Well, I saw them when I- I used to live in Japan for three years, and they were in the area that I lived, and they were magical.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And I agree. It is an experience that you can only experience in person.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Experience, experience. It’s like watching the northern lights.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s not the same seeing a video of it.

[Thomas]
No.

[Emily]
No. I grew up in Virginia and Florida, and they were just everywhere. Every summer. It meant summer was here. The lightning bugs would come out and it was the best. The humid air, you smell like pool and sunscreen, and you’re out at dusk catching those little suckers.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
It’s so awesome.

[Thomas]
So when I was on the east coast, I was so it was a group of kids from Hawaii, and, I mean, we all kind of thought they were cool, but I was like, “Oh, my god, these are amazing!” And, like, no one else seemed very interested in catching them, but I liked catching them. I like when they’re in your hand and they light up and your, kind of, inside of your hand is glowing. It’s cool.

[Emily]
I actually think it’s sad that my kids don’t get to do that. And I really want to take them while they’re still kids to the east coast so they have a chance to experience that.

[Thomas]
Mmm. It’s a good idea. We’ll have to organize a trip so I can take my kid as well.

[Shep]
Better hurry.

[Thomas]
Well, Emily, you’re pitching first today, so let’s hear what you have.

[Emily]
Alright, I got a couple pitches today: Cecilia collects bugs all the time, but she loves fireflies most of all. One night, she captures a handful in a jar, as usual. She lays in her bed watching the little bugs lighting up and signaling to each other. She wishes she could be their size and see the world from their perspective for just one day. And the next morning, she wakes up inside the jar and is also a firefly.

[Thomas]
All right.

[Shep]
Oh, she is a firefly. She’s not just small?

[Emily]
Yeah. Yeah, she is a firefly.

[Shep]
Okay, what a twist.

[Emily]
What a twist. You know, gotta throw some Kafka in there somehow, right?

[Shep]
Because fireflies are a type of beetle. So.

[Emily]
Hmm.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
It all mathematically checks out.

[Emily]
It all tracks.

[Thomas]
She makes friends with one, and his name is Samsa, and we don’t ever call any more attention to it than that.

[Emily]
Yep.

[Thomas]
Oh, Sam and Greg. There’s two that she’s friends with.

[Emily]
Okay. Sam and Greg.

[Thomas]
There’s Sam and Greg. There we go.

[Shep]
This pitch writes itself.

[Emily]
It’s for children, but also, you know, lit nerds.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
It’s for lit nerds’ children.

[Emily]
There you go.

[Thomas]
So it’s about bugs that light up for lit nerds.

[Emily]
Mm. Yep. All right, my next one is: Kyle plans to propose to his girlfriend Jeanette while watching the fireflies in the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. But he’s entered the lottery for a park pass three years in a row and still hasn’t been able to secure one. This year, as the lottery passes, he still doesn’t get one. He can sense his girlfriend is tiring of their lack of progression in their relationship, but he needs everything to be perfect in this huge, life-changing event. He’s determined to make this happen his way. So he sets out to find this year’s pass holders and convince one of them to give him the pass. Along the way, he starts questioning why everything needs to be so perfect, and doubts about this commitment start creeping into his mind.

[Shep]
So he doesn’t really want to get married. And this was all just excuses like, “Oh, I’d love to propose, but, gosh, I didn’t get in the lottery, so.”

[Emily]
Well, I think more it’s that he’s an absurd perfectionist to the point where he can’t- Nothing is good enough at any aspect of his life. So he’s never going to find true happiness.

[Shep]
Oh, he’s Chidi from The Good Place.

[Emily]
Yeah. Yeah. So he needs to go on this journey to learn about how not to be perfect. And then in the process, he starts to think about his relationship and question: why did he choose this woman? Like every, you know, his whole life is questioned now. And then, he’s like, maybe he has been putting it off. Maybe he has been using it as an excuse because their relationship wasn’t based on anything more than this ideal perfection.

[Thomas]
So does he want to do this proposal among the fireflies because that’s the thing he wants? Because I could see it, like, oh, this is how he’s always imagined it, and it’s magical, and so it has to be his way. Right? That’s what he wants. But I could also see her saying something about, like, I don’t know, making an offhand comment that he interpreted as, “Oh, this is what she wants,” and “I must give her what she wants.”

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
So I could see it going either way.

[Emily]
Yeah. I could see it going either way. I think more, I was thinking it was, this is what he thinks is ideal and perfect.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
And it’s, you know, it’s going to look the best for the ‘Gram. Right?

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
And have- and it’ll be the best story to tell.

[Thomas]
Mm. Mm hmm.

[Emily]
And she maybe one time, like, he got the idea because she one time said how much she loves fireflies.

[Thomas]
Not realizing she was referring to the TV show.

[Emily]
Right, right.

[Thomas]
“I wish there was more Firefly.” And he went, “Okay, yeah, got it.” All right, Shep, let’s hear your pitch.

[Shep]
All right. In a fantasy village known for its beast tamers, a young would-be adventurer comes of age, at which point they discover the type of beast that they will be able to control in battle. So the stronger the beast, the better. Will it be powerful tigers? Will it be strong bears? No. Obviously, the title of this episode is Fireflies. It’s fireflies. How are they supposed to become a famous adventurer with the ability to control fireflies?

[Thomas]
They’ll just have to get really creative, right?

[Emily]
Yeah. They’re small but mighty.

[Shep]
They’re a small but hardy breed.

[Thomas]
You’ve got to get a whole bunch of them together, and then they can have an impressive amount of light or-

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
They make a lightning golem.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
They focus like a laser.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
They start a fire.

[Thomas]
Yeah. You get a bunch of them behind some lenses, and then…

[Shep]
Just got to carry a bunch of lenses around with you.

[Thomas]
Look, if you get assigned fireflies…

[Emily]
Yeah. And in these fantasy-type worlds, that’s easy. Right?

[Thomas]
Right? I mean, it’s a telescope, basically, and it telescopes so you can shrink it down to be compact.

[Emily]
A telescoping telescope?

[Thomas]
Yeah. All right. Well, my pitches, I have one that’s kind of a little more fleshed out, so we’ll start there: In a society that fears darkness, for example, maybe the society from our Flashlight episode, everyone lives under harsh artificial light. Layla has always been fascinated by the darkness and felt that there must be something more to the world beyond the city walls. So while everyone’s asleep, fueled by a sense of rebellious curiosity, she sneaks out past the border wall and into the unknown. What she finds is beyond anything she could have ever imagined. The world outside the city is filled with strange and wondrous creatures with shimmering scales and glittering wings that create their own light. But lurking in the darkness, hidden among the ethereal beauty of the fireflies, is a very real danger. My next idea is a little bit similar to Emily’s, or at least there’s a crossover with Emily’s proposal one. Mine is a rom-com about two people who have both traveled to the quaint town of Gatlinburg, Tennessee, hoping to see the fireflies that blink in unison, which is in the national park there, where you need a pass to get in to see them. The lottery. As we said at the top of the show, fireflies are also called lightning bugs. So what if they actually created electricity? And what if getting enough of them together allowed for some truly amazing electrical discharges?

[Emily]
When I was little, I actually thought they did, and I was terrified to catch them in my hand because I thought I would get shocked.

[Thomas]
I feel like that would be a great way to establish it at the beginning of the movie, too. Some kid catches it, and then they get zapped by the lightning bug. And then my final idea was actually my first idea, and it’s pretty similar to Shep’s idea, and it’s just someone who can control fireflies, uses that ability to do something interesting. I didn’t know what, but I like the visuals of it, so. Is there one of these that is jumping out at us, or there’s a little crossover going on, so maybe two of them?

[Emily]
I do think the ones about controlling fireflies are kind of the most interesting to me.

[Shep]
Now, is this a world where people have such abilities, or is this magical reality where most people don’t have such abilities and just one person discovers they can control fireflies?

[Thomas]
Or is it kind of like Pokemon? There’s, like, some people who go down this path. Most people don’t, but some people do, I assume. I’m not terribly familiar with how Pokemon actually works.

[Shep]
Yeah, I’m starting to figure out how. What? What do you mean, it’s like Pokemon?

[Thomas]
Do most people not catch Pokemon? Does everybody catch Pokemon? I have no idea.

[Emily]
No, not everyone. Like, most of the time, they just kind of live with them. They’re just there.

[Thomas]
Okay. The point that I was trying to make is that-

[Emily]
It’s not everyone becomes a Pokemon trainer.

[Thomas]
A small subset of people become Pokemon trainers, but it is a known thing. It’s not, like, an uncommon or mysterious thing. It’s-

[Shep]
Okay, some people can control animals. Is it always insects? Is it always fireflies? Or is it- Can someone who controls animals control multiple kinds of animals?

[Thomas]
I don’t think they should.

[Shep]
Okay.

[Emily]
No, I like the idea of it being like, this whole big coming-of-age ceremony thing, and you get to find out your animal power. And, you know, everybody oohs, and ahhs when you get the tiger or the lion and he goes up and he gets lightning bugs.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
But does everybody get to control something?

[Emily]
Maybe there’s, like, a family or-

[Shep]
The Madrigals?

[Emily]
Yeah. Or like a chosen, like, I don’t know.

[Shep]
So in my pitch, it’s a village where everybody does control animals. But that’s not like the whole population. It’s just this village.

[Emily]
That village. Okay.

[Thomas]
So it’s Encanto then?

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Hmm.

[Shep]
But the whole village instead of just one family.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Whereas it’s in Encanto, it’s one family in a village, here, it’s one village in the world.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Got it.

[Shep]
Completely different.

[Thomas]
So in the same way that my looks, for example, are based on my heritage, my family, my parents and their parents, etcetera, is what you control based on that? Is there a family who is always getting bears or wild cats or things like that? And so this firefly person ends up being an anomaly in their family. Or, is it totally random?

[Shep]
I like the idea that it’s genetic, and the main character comes from a family where they often, it’s tigers or bears. That’s what the ceremony is. Is it going to be tigers or bears? Either way, you can come hunting with the rest of the warriors and fight monsters and bring back food for the village. So it’s just, are you gonna be on team tiger or team bear? And it’s fireflies.

[Thomas]
And everyone’s just sort of like-

[Shep]
“What?!”

[Thomas]
Is this a thing that’s happened before? Like, every once in a while, there’s just like, a wrench gets thrown in the works and-

[Shep]
Oh, sure, yeah.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
Of course, that’s how all of these places work.

[Shep]
It happened to his uncle Bruno, but we don’t talk about Bruno.

[Thomas]
All right, is this the story we’re going to do then?

[Shep]
I guess, we’ve already started it.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Emily]
I like this story.

[Thomas]
No, I do too.

[Shep]
Okay, so some people, every once in a while in the family, have a different trait, and it’s not tigers or bears.

[Thomas]
Or in the village, like, every once in a while, some person will have this happen to them.

[Shep]
Well, I’m saying, like, even in this family, every once in a great while, like, his great-grandfather could control hummingbirds. And it’s like, “Oh, that’s not… uhh…” But, like, initially, the dad is mad at the mom thinking she cheated on him.

[Thomas]
Mmm.

[Shep]
Like, there’s stuff going on there, and we don’t know whether she did or not.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Like, that’s not the point of the story.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
The point follows the main character, which I assume is a boy. We started talking about him as if he’s a boy.

[Thomas]
That’s true. I don’t think it matters.

[Shep]
I mean, if he’s training for battle, yeah, it doesn’t really matter. But if it’s a girl, then it’s Encanto. So.

[Thomas]
Good point. So we’ll make it a boy.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Well, I was also thinking perhaps he has two siblings, one who has already become a tiger and one who’s already become a bear.

[Shep]
Yes. And so that’s why they’re. The whole setup prior to the ceremony is whether he’s going to be team tiger or team bear.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Because there’s, like, this internal rivalry in the family between them.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Like, it’s a friendly rivalry, but it is a rivalry.

[Emily]
So do they each have their own tiger or bear, or is it just whoever gets to that animal first gets to control it?

[Shep]
I mean, considering how difficult it would be to feed and maintain actual animals, I’m just figuring they summon spirit tigers and spirit bears to fight for them, because otherwise, how, logically, do you explain all these tigers and bears?

[Emily]
Oh, okay. Okay.

[Shep]
What do they eat? Emily, what do they eat? There’s only a finite amount of meat in the village.

[Thomas]
So kind of like in Harry Potter, where you have your, you know, everyone has their own sort of unique patronus, right?

[Emily]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Is that how it works? So everybody has, like, their spirit animal thing, but it’s not totally unique, we decided, sort of genetic.

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Like, in Harry Potter, he has a deer. His dad had a deer.

[Thomas]
Okay, now, do these look like, if I saw a tiger standing in front of me, does it look like that? Or is it sort of ethereal, like Harry Potter?

[Shep]
I think if it’s a tiger, it looks ethereal, because tigers are big and powerful. And the more, the bigger they are and the more powerful they are, the more of this, like, smoky aura emanates from their body. But the main character’s fireflies just look like regular fireflies. They’re not big enough or powerful enough to emit that smoky, ethereal aura. So they just look like regular fireflies.

[Emily]
Does he, at the end, find a way to harness all of his power to conjure a giant firefly and save the day?

[Thomas]
I would imagine it’s more a cloud of fireflies. You get- Because he has these little points of light he can control. But when you amass all of the points of light together, it becomes this big, bright, overwhelming force.

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Thomas]
What does the family use these creatures for?

[Shep]
If it’s a fantasy world, then there are monsters that they have to continually fight.

[Emily]
Of course.

[Thomas]
So they’re protecting the village? Protecting the world? Protecting-

[Shep]
They’re protecting the village. Also, monsters drop resources. You know, you’ve played video games.

[Thomas]
Is this just like a village in a region and they’re in charge of protecting the whole region? Or are there several families that live in a large area, a big kingdom? They don’t all live together in one village necessarily, but they all know each other.

[Shep]
Well, in a real world, the village would be part of a larger society.

[Thomas]
Right. I was just wondering, like, is this several families, different families, who all have this power, who all live together in a single village? Or is it in this larger society, there are several families who live just in the society, not necessarily altogether on the same block or in the same village or, you know.

[Shep]
Well, so, in my imagination, this village is full of animal tamers.

[Thomas]
Mmhmm.

[Shep]
But that’s not the only ability people can have.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
It’s just in this village. You know, animal tamers got together and started a village. And so their descendants, because we said previously that it’s genetic-

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
With the ability that they have, their descendants are also animal tamers.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
But other villages have other abilities. You know, the villages tend to specialize because they’re small, and the families marry each other and whatever.

[Thomas]
Mm hmm.

[Shep]
And so the types of abilities become like a monoculture in the village. But if you go to a city, it’s going to be full of people doing all kinds of stuff.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
So this, the main character’s dream was to become a powerful adventurer and go join an adventuring team with other people with other abilities.

[Thomas]
So they were going to contribute the animal ability, the animal trainer, ability.

[Shep]
Right, right.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Because they could function as a tank. They could block damage.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
They could deal damage depending on did they get a tiger or did they get a bear? And maybe they’re already in conflict with their family because he wants to leave and the family wants him to stay. Because his older brothers have both stayed.

[Thomas]
Brother and sister. His older brother and sister.

[Shep]
His brother and sister. Yes, they’ve both stayed.

[Emily]
And they have enough to protect and fight.

[Thomas]
Well, should the brother and sister both have left and that’s why they want him to stay?

[Shep]
No, they gotta still be there because you have the tigers versus bears rivalry going on.

[Thomas]
I think that rivalry would be going on regardless. They could come back for his ceremony.

[Shep]
Well, if they leave, then what’s the conflict on whether or not he leaves?

[Thomas]
Because then all the kids are gone.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
They want somebody there.

[Shep]
But apparently kids just leave, as we’ve seen happen over and over again. So there’s no conflict for the main character because everybody leaves.

[Thomas]
If everybody stays, why would it matter whether he stayed or left?

[Shep]
Because everybody stays. And if he doesn’t stay, that’s not tradition.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
He’s betraying them.

[Shep]
Right. He’s supposed to stay and contribute to the village and the family, make the village strong.

[Emily]
So is the village, like, north of the wall? They’re there to protect from a certain…

[Shep]
I think they’re just in an area and they’re subsisting for themselves.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Shep]
And also, sometimes people come and hire them for whatever because they’re powerful.

[Emily]
Oh, okay.

[Shep]
They’re strong and they’re powerful.

[Thomas]
So the family wants him to stay. He wants to leave. Before he gets his powers, his plan is, “I’m going to get out of here.”

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
But that’s not the tradition.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
The tradition is you stay. You stay in the village. The village is, you know, this is where we… I don’t know, organize and have our union meetings. I don’t know, whatever it is, but, like-

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
This is where you make more babies, who can pick tiger or bear.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Yes, yes. So then he gets his powers. They’re fireflies. And then kind of, no one gives a shit whether he stays or not.

[Shep]
And in fact, maybe some people want him to leave because otherwise he’s gonna infect the bloodline.

[Thomas]
Right, right.

[Shep]
“I don’t want my kids to have firefly abilities. I want my daughter to marry a tiger man.”

[Thomas]
Yeah. Are there friendships that are kind of fall apart as a result of this? Like, the parents don’t want their kids playing with him anymore or-

[Shep]
Oh, yeah. He’s got a childhood friend, and they’re kind of in love because that’s how childhood romances are.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And they talk about maybe they’re going to get married someday or whatever, but then he’s a firefly boy, and her parents don’t want him hanging out with him anymore.

[Thomas]
Does she come of age at the same time, get her powers at the same time?

[Shep]
I mean, sure, if they’re around the same age. Is she older or younger?

[Emily]
We can make her older. So she already has her powers, and they’re just waiting to run away together.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Ooh, yes.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Is she a tiger, a bear, or something else? She’s from a different family. So-

[Shep]
She’s from a different family, so she could be some other animal, but it’s going to be some big, powerful animal.

[Emily]
A wolf?

[Thomas]
Elephant, Wolf.

[Shep]
Elephant, wolf. Yeah.

[Thomas]
Yeah, those are good.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
Boar, even.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
Hmm.

[Thomas]
What would go really well with either a tiger or a bear? Lion.

[Emily]
I don’t know. I think a wolf would go good with them.

[Shep]
Yeah. So you want the bear as your tank to stop the monsters from attacking anything else, and then you have your damage dealer, the wolf, run around and attack them from behind.

[Thomas]
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So he’s hoping to be a bear.

[Shep]
He’s hoping to be a bear.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
But if he were a tiger, they could work with that. Either way, it’ll be fine.

[Emily]
His sister’s a bear, and his brother’s a tiger.

[Shep]
All right.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I like that.

[Emily]
Because he keeps saying he wants to be a bear. But, you know, his brother points out, “Well, our sister’s a bear. I think the girl’s got the genes, and you’re a boy, and I’m a boy, so…” You know that part of that rivalry that you’re talking about.

[Shep]
Hmm.

[Emily]
So he keeps saying, “I want to be a bear. I want to be a bear.” And everyone’s kind of like, “Yeah, but your brother’s a tiger and you’re a boy.”

[Shep]
Right. “You’re probably going to be a tiger, so be prepared to be a tiger.”

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
And that’s his worst-case scenario.

[Emily]
Yeah, yeah. That would bring him disappointment, but he’d survive.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
So he ends up as a firefly.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
What happens in the immediate aftermath? How big is this ceremony? Is that a family thing or is it, like, a village thing? All the kids at that age get their things on a big stage all at the same time.

[Shep]
Oh, yes. Yep. Oh, they do it one by one.

[Thomas]
Right. So it’s like, public shame.

[Shep]
Yes. Well, it’s a public celebration because every kid goes up and they get their animal, and everyone celebrates.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And so it’s a surprise when he doesn’t get tiger or bear, and they don’t know how to respond at first. It’s shocked silence. It’s the dad accusing the mom.

[Emily]
And you had said that this has happened before. There’s some, like, rumors or family lore that-

[Shep]
Right. Maybe not his grandfather, but, like, his great uncle or something.

[Emily]
Yeah, Great Aunt Gertrude was-

[Shep]
Hummingbird.

[Emily]
Hummingbird. Okay.

[Thomas]
What happened to Great Aunt Gertrude?

[Shep]
She moved off into the forest and became like, a forest witch on her own.

[Emily]
As women should.

[Shep]
Well, she was kind of driven from the village, and none of the boys wanted to date her.

[Thomas]
So when do we find out about this? Because I like the idea of little hummingbirds being just in the background. Every once in a while there’s a little hummingbird. We don’t call attention to the fact that it’s there. It’s just-

[Emily]
Because she’s still living in the woods.

[Thomas]
Well, because she’s, like, sending the hummingbirds out to keep an eye on the family. She still cares.

[Shep]
Right. She’s really good at monitoring.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
That’s like her ability that people don’t appreciate.

[Thomas]
Right. Who’s paying attention to a bird?

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
Yes, exactly.

[Thomas]
Bird doesn’t call attention in the same way that a fucking tiger does.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Emily]
Right. They overlooked the skill of spy.

[Thomas]
Exactly. So she’s been spying on the village. Just making sure, among other things.

[Shep]
Right. Yes.

[Thomas]
I like that as a rewatch detail of, like, oh, there were hummingbirds all along, just hanging out.

[Shep]
Yep. So I imagine he runs away from home shortly after this.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
His girlfriend breaks up with him, or, his childhood friend. Her family doesn’t want her to hang out with him.

[Emily]
Does she reject him, too? Or is she still, like, just kind of in shock?

[Thomas]
I say the family rejects him on her behalf.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
He’s like, “I need to talk to my best friend, who I always talk to when things are a little rough.” So he goes over to her house or something, and they’re like, “Yeah, she can’t see you” or whatever.

[Shep]
Or she can, and she’s very pragmatic about the situation.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
“I have this plan, and me and my partner are going to form an adventuring team. And you can’t be part of that anymore.”

[Emily]
So he leaves, but in the end, do they end up together? Do they-

[Shep]
No.

[Emily]
Then I think it’s better that she just flat-out rejects him.

[Shep]
Yeah. They don’t end up together. You don’t end up with your childhood sweetheart.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
It’s unrealistic.

[Emily]
It is.

[Thomas]
Right. What is our… We should name our character here. Marty.

[Emily]
McFly.

[Shep]
I’m sold. I mean, obviously, he’d have some sort of fantasy name or whatever, but we are gonna call him Marty.

[Thomas]
Right. We’ll call him Marty. So what is Marty’s new goal? Or does he have a new goal? Obviously, step one is get away, because at every turn, he’s being ridiculed or ostracized, and he just doesn’t feel welcome anymore.

[Shep]
Right. Well, he has been training with the warriors in his family in preparation for fighting with a tiger or a bear.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And now he doesn’t have a tiger or a bear, and he’s like, tries to continue his routine in life, and they’re like, “No, you can’t come training with us. You have fireflies. Like, what? The training is for when you have a tiger or a bear, and you won’t have a tiger or a bear, the training is worthless to you. Training you is worthless to us.”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And so he’s left to his own devices, basically. He can’t go out and hunt monsters for the village. And what does he do with his life? Just stay home and sponge off his parents?

[Emily]
Well, there has to be some other jobs in the village he could do, like baker’s assistant or-

[Shep]
Yeah, I guess.

[Thomas]
But again, he’s viewed as a public disappointment.

[Emily]
But you still need people to do jobs. And even though he wouldn’t have a great job.

[Thomas]
Right. But the people in the village don’t want him there mucking up the bloodlines.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So they don’t fuck him. I just don’t think they would waste the body. But in this fantasy world, perhaps they have enough people to do the work of keeping a village.

[Thomas]
Look, don’t fight too hard for this. Because we’re trying to get him to leave the village. And so-

[Emily]
Okay, that’s what I’m saying. I guess they can do without the body.

[Shep]
Or he sticks around, like you said, he tries to work as the baker’s assistant or whatever, but everyone has been training since they were a child, and he’s been training as a warrior, so he has no other skills. So when he tries to help at the bakery, he fucks things up.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And then when he tries to help doing whatever, he keeps fucking things up because he has no experience with it, like, the other kids his age that have been trained for this and have been, you know, helping out for years, they’re experts at it. They’re really good. They can do whatever, and he can’t do anything. But instead of seeing that as, like, “Oh, he’s inexperienced, and he just needs to be trained up.”

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Everyone sees him as unlucky, and so being around him is unlucky.

[Emily]
And then he is a burden.

[Shep]
He is a burden.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
He tried to help out with the bakery, and he fucked up everything at the bakery for everyone. And no one gets any bread today. And that’s his fault. He’s a jinx. He’s a jinx. And so they don’t want to associate with him.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s good.

[Shep]
None of his friends stay with them, and no jobs are available for him.

[Thomas]
And people don’t want to be around him.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
They cross the street to be on the other side of the street, away from him. That sort of thing.

[Shep]
Right. His mom still loves him, and that’s about it.

[Emily]
Of course. But she thinks he should go and explore other opportunities elsewhere.

[Shep]
No, she wants him to stay forever. Because she’s a mom, and she’s like, “That’s okay. You could just live at home and stay with me forever and ever and ever.” And he’s like, “I gotta get out of this town.”

[Emily]
“Your little bug friends can help me in the evening, as I’m doing dishes.”

[Shep]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily]
“They can light our house.”

[Shep]
I mean, he’s not good at controlling them yet, so he’s like, he can summon, like, three, and it’s not very bright, and they don’t all light up together, and they don’t stay lit for very long, and it’s not enough to read by.

[Emily]
See, I’m buying us some more time, Thomas, to build the story so we don’t have to write as much before he leaves the village.

[Thomas]
Oh, I see.

[Emily]
That’s the end of the first act. He leaves the village.

[Thomas]
Right, right.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Well, let’s take a break here, and when we come back, we’ll figure out the rest of Marty’s story with fireflies.

[Break]

[Thomas]
All right, we’re back. Marty has just left the village. Is that what we’ve decided?

[Shep]
Sure.

[Emily]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So he ventures out. Was it Great Aunt Ruth? Is that who we said was the hummingbird person?

[Shep]
I don’t know if we gave her a name. Did we give her a name? Someone listen to the-

[Emily]
We did.

[Thomas]
We did, but I don’t think we paid super close attention to it. Let’s say it was Great Aunt Ruth.

[Shep]
All right.

[Thomas]
And, uh… I’m really tempted to just record ‘Great Aunt Ruth’ and put that back. No context, so that we’re talking normally, and then all of a sudden, it’s just ‘Great Aunt Ruth’. And then people are like, “What?”

[Emily]
“What?”

[Shep]
But see, they keep listening, and they get to this part where you explain it, and they’re like, “Okay, this is one of their time travel episodes.”

[Emily]
Yep.

[Thomas]
So Marty goes out into the world. So my question is, I feel like, obviously, he’s gotta have an interaction with Great Aunt Ruth, but that feels like a third-act thing, maybe.

[Shep]
Yes. Yeah. So his goal is to go to the city.

[Thomas]
Right. That makes sense.

[Shep]
Where no one knows him, and he can get some apprentice job doing literally anything. But the city is far away, and so maybe the journey doesn’t go well?

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
You know, he’s on his way, and he gets attacked by monsters, and he can do nothing but run away because he does not have the ability to fight back.

[Thomas]
Does he end up getting saved by some other people who have elephant or boar or whatever spirits and, “Oh, lucky we came along.” And he’s like, “Yes. How lucky for me.”

[Shep]
Is it people from his village?

[Thomas]
I mean, I guess, yes, they would probably be from his village, but not people who’ve been around. These are people who’ve been out adventuring. That’s what they do now. They’re full-time away from the village adventurers, so they don’t necessarily know who he is.

[Shep]
Ah, they’re returning to the village.

[Thomas]
Ah, yes. Yes. Very good.

[Shep]
So now he can’t travel with them. They’re going the opposite direction.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So they’ve chased off the monsters, but then he has to immediately continue on his own without them?

[Thomas]
Oof.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So during this time, obviously on the journey, he’s harnessing his powers and becoming better at controlling the fireflies accidentally or on purpose.

[Thomas]
Yeah. I think we’ve kind of established that he has some foundation in animal training.

[Emily]
Right, right.

[Thomas]
The lessons he was given were geared toward fighting, but part of that is how to establish that connection with your creature, how to train them, how to control them. So he does have that sort of a foundation so he can start, I think, going down that path.

[Emily]
Well, yeah, because we want, I assume, we want the ultimate climax to be that he has controlled them and they do this really awesome thing that helps save the day.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
So he can summon one firefly. That’s it. Because everyone starts with one, and you have to build up to having more. And, like, his grandfather’s really strong in tiger, and so he can summon, like, four tigers that all fight together.

[Thomas]
And they’re big, beefy tigers.

[Shep]
They’re big, beefy tigers, and there’s four of them.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
That’s many.

[Emily]
That is many for tigers.

[Shep]
Yes, exactly.

[Emily]
That’s a lot of tigers.

[Shep]
Right. So being able to summon four of something is a big skill. So him being able to start with one- Because I’m setting up at the end when he can summon a swarm of them, then it’s like showing off.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
He is skilled. So he can summon one, and he’s trained in tiger style and bear style. So as he’s traveling on the path to the city, he’s going through the motions with the one firefly, where it’s like “Tiger defense stance!” And the firefly buzzes in front of him. He’s like, “Bear attack!” And the firefly buzzes again.

[Thomas]
Right. It’s just a point of light that we’re seeing.

[Shep]
Right. Yes.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s a point of light.

[Thomas]
That’s funny.

[Shep]
So maybe one of the evenings when he’s sitting by the fireplace practicing, and he can summon two, and he makes the lights chase each other over his hand, and it’s like he can already summon two, and it’s only been a week. That’s impressive. It’s impressive.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It’s unfortunate that it’s only fireflies, but it’s impressive that it’s growing that quickly.

[Emily]
Yes. I like that touch.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Does he run into any other issues on his way to the city?

[Emily]
Of course.

[Shep]
Right. What are the other issues that he runs into?

[Emily]
Many.

[Shep]
And some examples of that would be…

[Thomas]
How much time do we want him to spend on the way to the city?

[Shep]
Does he reach the city successfully?

[Thomas]
He must.

[Shep]
He must, because he’s got to return triumphant at the end.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Right, okay, so does he reach the city during the second act or during the third act?

[Thomas]
Yeah. I think we need to figure out what are the major story beats. Right. What’s the mid-second act turning point? What’s the lowest low?

[Shep]
Oh, okay, I’m gonna just plot dump here.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
The adventuring party that was returning to the village is returning because they had a quest. They were given a message to deliver to the village. The message from the king is one of conscription. The village is going to be pressed into service to fight in whatever war is ongoing that maybe we hear snippets of, but it seems so far away. But now, basically, the village is going to be ruined. Because everyone, you know, all the fighting-age people are going to go off to war, and they have always considered themselves independent. They’re not part of the kingdom. They’re nearby, but they are surviving fine on their own. And so the king doesn’t have authority over them, they feel, and so they refuse the conscription notice. And so the king sends the army, and there is a fight between the village and the king’s army. Now, this happens every couple of generations. This is not the first time this has happened. And the villagers talk about this. It’s like, “Every couple of generations, we gotta teach them the lesson again, that we are independent and they’re not in charge of us.” But this time, they’re overwhelmed for some reason. The king’s army has some-

[Thomas]
Has guns.

[Shep]
Oh, maybe! Has something new that they haven’t had in the previous fights. And this time, the king’s army is going to win. So the triumphant return is the main character discovering all this is going on, rushing back to the village to save them from the king’s army, the battle of which has already begun. Is that too much?

[Emily]
I don’t think so.

[Thomas]
So I like that plot. I feel like maybe the mid-second act turning point is him discovering this and returning from the city. And then the lowest low is village loses initially. And so then the third act is: they have to escape into the woods or something like that. The survivors do. And that’s when they come across Great Aunt Ruth, who helps him harness his powers and strengthen the subtle powers that he has. The sneakiness, the spying, the surprise attacks, the ganging up of all of his individual units into one.

[Emily]
When you had mentioned the tigers have sort of an ethereal light. Right? Emitting from them?

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So one of the tricks he can do with the fireflies is recreate that sort of look and redirect the enemy towards that so that the bears, the tigers can actually attack.

[Thomas]
Sure. If he has enough fireflies at his disposal, he can make something that appears to be a tiger.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
And so they attack it, and when they attack it, it just dissipates into a bunch of little points. It’s not actually one of the tigers.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
And in the meantime. Yeah. The real tiger has snuck up from the side, has flanked them.

[Shep]
I think that his strongest ability is one he learns from his great aunt, which is information control.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
He, by spreading out all of his insects, can see all points of the battlefield, which is what his great aunt can do with her hummingbirds. But his fireflies have the ability to flash signals.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Mh.

[Shep]
So he can assign a firefly to different people. So everyone in the army or in the village knows everything that’s going on on the battlefield, which is a huge advantage.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Because this is, you know, pre-satellites, you know?

[Thomas]
Right. So he essentially gives them wireless communication, a thing which has heretofore not existed.

[Shep]
Yes, yes. So they can communicate with each other. They can get information on the whole battlefield.

[Thomas]
If somebody talks to a firefly, can he hear it and understand it?

[Shep]
Maybe he can hear it and understand it, but I think it would be even better if they can talk to a firefly and send a signal to a specific other person, and the firefly just flashes that message.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
They can all text each other, basically, is what I’m saying.

[Emily]
Yeah. So his powers become wireless communication and holographic projection.

[Shep]
He’s the Internet, which we can all agree is overpowered.

[Emily]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So then the inciting incident is the ceremony. Right?

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
And then I think he needs to pretty quickly go to the city. I’m not sure necessarily what the end of the first act would be. I know previously we’d said that’s leaving, but I think that we need that to happen earlier, if we want him to spend time away before that conscription, the battle happens. Otherwise, I think our story is way too compressed. So the end of the second act is initial defeat. The third act is hiding in the woods, meeting Great Aunt Ruth and developing his powers. And then they come back for the big battle. And the big battle they win, thanks to him.

[Shep]
Now, is the village defeated or is he defeated? Because if the village is defeated, it seems harder to come back from that. But if he is trying to get back to the village and is discovered by soldiers and beaten up and chased off, he’s defeated. But the village is still standing.

[Emily]
But I like the idea of the village being basically decimated in that it’s still there. It still functions, but-

[Shep]
You like that idea? Those poor villagers!

[Emily]
From a story standpoint, yes. Yes, I do.

[Thomas]
Well, I don’t think the soldiers’ goal is to raze the buildings or anything.

[Emily]
No. Yeah, the village still stands and there’s still people there. But the warriors that they’re coming to conscript are gone because they don’t want to be conscripted.

[Thomas]
I mean, what does that battle, what does that look like? They don’t want to kill these people because they need them for the war.

[Shep]
And they don’t want to kill the other villagers because they need the threat of killing them to keep the warriors in line.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Do they kill his dad or something? Is his dad kind of a leader in the village?

[Emily]
Kill his brother.

[Shep]
Or his sister, one of them fights back.

[Emily]
Yeah, and one of them dies.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
Make it the sister, because then it’s like all warrior badass. Lady warrior.

[Shep]
Ah, see, I don’t want to fridge the sister, like her reason for existing was to motivate the main character?

[Emily]
Alright, then kill the brother, I don’t care. Just kill one of them.

[Thomas]
Well, we could establish that the brother’s headstrong and-

[Emily]
Bullish.

[Shep]
Right.

[Emily]
And-

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
So is the dad trying to buy time, and the brother thinks, “Ah, I’ll just solve this right now.” And he attacks the captain of the military force, who kills the brother.

[Shep]
Or the soldiers have occupied the village now, and the village chief is like, “We need time to prepare.”

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
“We can’t just up and leave. We have to make preparations.” And so the soldiers are staying there until the warriors are ready to go. In the meantime, they are harassing the villagers.

[Thomas]
Naturally, yeah.

[Shep]
The brother tries to protect the villagers from being harassed, and the soldiers are going to make an example out of him. The whole reason they’re harassing the villagers is so that someone will attack them so that they can make an example out of them.

[Thomas]
Oh. So I want to jump back to when he’s leaving the village and gets attacked by a monster, and those other people are coming back. Are those other people from a different village and they are coming with the army to conscript the villagers?

[Shep]
Well, I was saying they were bringing the message of conscription because maybe that would work and they would obediently join up, like optimistically.

[Thomas]
Could be. I just like the idea that when those three meet, I assume it’s two other people. When those three meet, they don’t realize they’re in opposition to each other.

[Shep]
Right. Yes. Yeah.

[Thomas]
And then it comes back around later. They’re actually bad guys. They’re working with the evil king or whatever, the-

[Emily]
They’re Rosencrantz and Guildenstern!

[Shep]
They’re patriots. They’re working for the king in his patriotic duty to suppress these savages in this village that don’t know their place.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
And have no loyalty.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Exactly.

[Shep]
The king has done so much for them. Don’t ask specifics.

[Emily]
He let them exist, what more do they want?

[Shep]
He let them exist, and they just took advantage of that.

[Thomas]
So is the lowest low then the brother dying?

[Shep]
I mean, if we have to have someone die, I guess.

[Emily]
He could just be really wounded.

[Shep]
I mean, if we’re gonna, if he’s gonna fight, then they gotta make an example out of him.

[Emily]
Yeah. So he should die.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
And that seems like a very good low low.

[Thomas]
How much time are the soldiers giving the warriors to get ready?

[Shep]
A week.

[Thomas]
That seems like a really long time. Why do they have so much time?

[Emily]
Well, they also have to, like the village has something, you know, they do other things than just create warriors. They also provide something else.

[Thomas]
Like a really great bread.

[Emily]
Yeah, literally something like that. And so they’re also stocking up on that other thing while they’re there.

[Thomas]
Hmm.

[Emily]
And it’s gonna take a week before they fully have their stores.

[Thomas]
That’s good. Yeah, I like that. That there’s a resource they need.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
So he then must be taking that time to train. He needs more time than a week then, huh?

[Shep]
Yeah. How do we get him trained up fast enough in a time that’s realistic for the village being press-ganged into military service?

[Thomas]
I mean, it could be the case that in the time that he’s left the village, basically over the course of the second act, he’s able to create quite a large number of fireflies. But he doesn’t really think anything of it because he doesn’t realize the number is significant. It’s like, “Oh, but they’re so small. they’re just one tiny little point.”

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
“Other people can create these large creatures. And so, like, yeah, I can create a lot of them, but it’s just a bunch of fireflies, and I can’t do anything with them.” And so when he runs into Great Aunt Ruth, she’s like, “No, you don’t get it. That’s amazing.” And so he already is able to manifest this large volume of fireflies. She helps him learn to control each one of them.

[Emily]
Because he was so eager as a child to be a bear or a tiger, he like really paid attention to his brother’s and sister’s trainings and everything else.

[Thomas]
Right, right.

[Emily]
So he had that advantage. He watched, he was an observer. See, he’s an observer and he creates communication.

[Shep]
Right. Yep.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
So that’s his superpower.

[Thomas]
Good. Very good.

[Shep]
Yeah, but he does need time to train with his great aunt-

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
Well enough to control all the fireflies individually.

[Thomas]
So it could be something where there’s, like, a natural resource that hasn’t been tapped. “Oh, you have a (whatever)…” ‘Mine’ is not the word I’m looking for. Because they want to build a mine. That’s my point, is that they want to do something that takes time to get established. So, okay, “You guys are going to build this mine and mine this resource, and we need it for the war effort.” And so it could be a month or so that he has.

[Shep]
Maybe they’re not being conscripted. That king wants the mine.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Emily]
¿Por qué no los dos? Like he could-

[Shep]
I mean. Yeah.

[Emily]
He, they get there and they see, “Oh, you also have these badass warriors. Well, they will come with us once the mine has been built.” Like that’s the plan. Does everybody know that that’s the plan? Maybe not yet. Maybe that’s revealed in the third act.

[Shep]
So it has to be something he discovers, because that’s his superpower is acquiring information.

[Thomas]
Yes. Excellent.

[Shep]
He could be spying on the army. And the generals are talking about how well things are going. And “Do they know that we’re going to take all the warriors with us when we leave?” “No, they have no idea.” And it’s like, “Oh, my gosh.”

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s good.

[Shep]
So that’s him succeeding in using his fireflies to get information. Like, that’s a success, but also bad news.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
So it’s highs and lows simultaneously. So however long it takes to build a mine, that’s how much time he has to train with his great aunt. Because he tries to get back to the village and the soldiers beat him up and chase him off. And he flees into the woods and finds her cottage.

[Thomas]
How does he communicate to his family that he’s back and can help? Does he send a bunch of fireflies to make an arrow in front of somebody to lead them out into the woods?

[Shep]
They have to have some sort of code that they already know. You know, whistles or something.

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Shep]
So that the fireflies can emulate that in a visual form, but they already all know it.

[Thomas]
The flowerflies could all go down like a chimney and go around the family crest on the wall or something to get attention. And they could, yeah, pulse out the code.

[Shep]
I see. I don’t think it should be so big. I think it should be like, one firefly goes to his dad and lands on his hand and signals him something subtle enough that the soldiers around won’t notice.

[Thomas]
I mean, I didn’t imagine the soldiers were in their house.

[Shep]
Right. But, I mean, I’m just picturing, like, this could be in a situation that’s very tense. There’s a standoff between the villagers and the soldiers, and the dad notices a firefly landing on the back of his hand.

[Thomas]
All right, so he goes to flick it, and he realizes, like, it’s pulsing this thing out. And he doesn’t, he’s like, “Oh.”

[Shep]
Well, he realizes it’s a firefly that’s already the sign. Because the soldiers brought back word that they killed some villager that they chased off a cliff or whatever, and so he thinks his son is dead.

[Emily]
That was the girlfriend.

[Shep]
What was the girlfriend?

[Emily]
The dead villager.

[Shep]
No, she’s fine. Stop trying to fridge people to motivate the hero. Anyway.

[Emily]
Oh, I didn’t think he would be motivated. This is like a thing they find out after the fact.

[Shep]
No.

[Emily]
It’s just, it’s just a tragic fact that we hear.

[Shep]
No, no, it’s him. It’s him. They did beat him up. They did chase him off a cliff. He just didn’t die.

[Emily]
Okay.

[Thomas]
You got all the fireflies to gently lower him to the ground below.

[Shep]
Well, I imagine that he fell into the water and then washed up on shore and was found by his aunt because the fireflies have landed on his body and are lighting him up so he’s noticeable.

[Thomas]
Sure. Oh, yeah.

[Shep]
And her hummingbirds saw it.

[Thomas]
Yeah. The bird was watching the whole time.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
I like that. That’s much better than killing another random villager.

[Thomas]
So how do they defeat the soldiers?

[Emily]
Through the code on the battlefield. They have that advantage.

[Thomas]
Are they able to coordinate a simultaneous attack?

[Shep]
Yes, yes.

[Thomas]
Because then you don’t need a secret language that everybody knows. You just need, “Hey, there’s going to be a firefly and it’s going to be on your wrist, and when it blinks three times, that’s the signal. Go, attack.” You know.

[Shep]
No, I still think the warriors have a code because he learned that because he trained as a kid. And they all know, like, hand signals or whatever. So then they don’t have to communicate with each other. Like, here’s the. You just gave them a code. The firefly is going to land on your hand and count down from three, and then you attack. That’s a lot. That’s a lot to communicate and also keep secret from all the soldiers who can’t-

[Thomas]
I’m just thinking about the audience.

[Shep]
Hmm.

[Thomas]
How do you communicate to the audience that these particular set of flashes mean this?

[Shep]
You have a scene at the beginning where he’s learning the code, and then you have the scene at the end where the firefly flashes a code, and the warrior recognizes it, and it so rewards people that paid attention. They don’t assume that your audience is dumb, Thomas. That’s-

[Thomas]
I’m not, I’m just saying that I think that that’s something that I could absolutely see that-

[Shep]
So you have the firefly land on his hand, and it starts flashing something and, like, moving around in a certain way, and he’s confused, and he keeps watching it. So you see it over and over again.

[Thomas]
Mm hmm.

[Shep]
This is so the audience can see it over and over again.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
So they have time to recognize. I mean, they know that it’s from the guy, from the kid, and they saw the training at the beginning, assuming they didn’t come into the movie late.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Well, if they did, that’s their fault.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
We can’t help those people. They’ve got bigger problems.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
You just get one code, though, is what I’m saying. You can’t have back-and-forth communication like we talked about.

[Shep]
You can!

[Thomas]
I think that’s-

[Shep]
You can.

[Thomas]
What, are they going to be blinking out Morse code? Are you going to subtitle that? You can’t teach the audience twelve fucking codes.

[Shep]
No, you don’t have to teach the audience shit. You have the people say whatever it is to the firefly, and then the firefly does a little dance or whatever. The audience already knows what the message is. They heard the warrior say it with his mouth.

[Thomas]
While I remain unconvinced. I don’t disagree about what you’re saying that, like, yes, we’ll hear the person say that thing. I just, like, I’m struggling to imagine something that is tidy enough that it’s going to work in the heat of battle.

[Shep]
I disagree. I think it works great. Or. So here’s the other way. You have groups of warriors, one of whom has a firefly, and they see the whatever, and they communicate with their mouth to the rest of the group what the message was. At no point does the audience have to learn Morse code or whatever. You have the scene at the beginning establishing that there is a code, and just the existence of a code is enough information.

[Thomas]
How is the code used at the beginning?

[Shep]
The warriors use it to communicate with each other when they’re, like, stalking an animal.

[Thomas]
How? How?

[Shep]
Hand signals or whistles or both. So whistles for long distance, hand signals for silent, close-up communication.

[Thomas]
Sure. I mean, I think you’ve got to establish some way that that could be translated to flashes of light.

[Shep]
Yes. That’s why you have the one scene where you see the lightning bug do it over and over again until you recognize it, or until you see that the warrior has recognized it, at least.

[Thomas]
I don’t know. Maybe.

[Shep]
See, I want to see a scene where the village head has, like, drawn a map and fireflies have landed on the map, and they’re showing where everyone is in the village where the soldiers are.

[Thomas]
That’s a great idea.

[Shep]
And so he’s giving out commands and orders to the fireflies, which are communicating it to whatever fireflies are at that point.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Do you boys have that settled now?

[Thomas]
No, but I don’t think we ever will.

[Shep]
No, we have to arm wrestle for it. But we’re on Zoom, so. All right, rock, paper, scissors on three?

[Thomas]
No, look, it’s fine. We’ll go ahead with it. I just… Because we’re not writing this movie, we don’t have to sell it to anybody. No studio exec is going to let this go through, though. I agree with you: Don’t assume your audience is stupid. But that’s what studio execs do. And so no one’s gonna make this movie with this scene.

[Shep]
That’s why movies are terrible these days.

[Thomas]
Yeah. You’re not wrong.

[Shep]
Oh, the scene where the warrior is seeing the code for the first time, the one where we establish that the fireflies are transmitting the code.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
It is one of the warriors that has been captured by the soldiers and is being held in prison. And the message is, “Duck in cover because we’re going to break through the wall.” And so it’s counting down. And so you see, like, it moves a certain way and then flashes five times. And then it moves a certain way, and then flashes four times. And then moves a certain way and flashes three times. Even the dumbest audience member can count down from five. Can we agree on that?

[Thomas]
I think five is too high of a number to start with. Just do three.

[Shep]
All right, Thomas, you’ve convinced me. Let’s go with your idea.

[Thomas]
I mean, I, look, ultimately, it depends how it’s written. Like-

[Shep]
Yes, that’s true. That’s true.

[Thomas]
If it’s written in a way where it is… From this conversation, I’m not wholly convinced. I’m not entirely unconvinced. I think that there’s a way that that could work. I just worry that you’re overcomplicating it or that the way that I’m interpreting what you’re saying is overcomplicated and you’re gonna lose a lot of people. Or that it’s like a hell of a lot of time in the middle of a battle spent on a close-up of a firefly on somebody’s hand.

[Shep]
That’s not the middle of the battle. That’s the beginning of the battle. That’s, that’s-

[Thomas]
No, but I’m saying when the battle is happening.

[Shep]
Yeah, but when the battle is happening, we don’t see that. Like, we see that there are fireflies on the back of some warriors hands, but we don’t, like, focus on that, because at that point, we don’t need to establish the signal anymore. We just have established that they do signal, and they use the same code that the warriors use.

[Thomas]
Yeah, I can see that. I think it just, again, how you handle conveying to the audience that information is going to be very, very important.

[Shep]
I say show it on the screen. And if they don’t get it, then they don’t get it. But as you see people talking to the fireflies and then the relaying, you know, the other, the receiver relaying the information, it seems pretty clear. It basically becomes their wireless communication.

[Thomas]
Right, right.

[Shep]
So they’re basically just verbally talking to each other with fireflies on their hands.

[Thomas]
Sure. All right, so they win, they beat the soldiers?

[Shep]
They beat the soldiers even though they have guns or whatever.

[Thomas]
Right. They never did figure out what their special-

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
Whatever their new power is, it’s not enough to overcome the power of knowledge.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Well. And big ass tigers and bears.

[Shep]
Also, big ass tigers and bears.

[Thomas]
And maybe he uses some of the fireflies to distract the guys so they can’t aim. The fireflies are right in their face and blinding them.

[Shep]
Right.

[Thomas]
So looking down the barrel of a gun isn’t helpful.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
Yep.

[Thomas]
All right, is there anything after the climax? What does he do? Does he stay in the village? Do they re-accept him? Do they want him to stay now? And he’s like, “No, no, I had a great job in the city doing fireworks shows” or-

[Shep]
Oh, no. He goes back with the army so that they don’t take anyone else in the village. That’s the agreement. That’s the compromise. He’s established that this is an effective battlefield tactic.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And he alone is as strong as his entire village, at least in terms of field value.

[Thomas]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s good.

[Shep]
So in return for the king leaving the village, and the mine alone. He will come back and go with them to war, which is what he wanted originally anyway.

[Thomas]
That’s true.

[Shep]
Which was to go on adventures and to travel the world.

[Thomas]
And to be a powerful figure.

[Shep]
Yes.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s good. All right, well, we’d love to hear your thoughts about today’s episode about Fireflies. Were we on fire or should we buzz off? Let us know by leaving a comment on our website, reaching out on social media, or sending us an email. Links to all of those can be found at AlmostPlausible.com. Another great way to let us know you love the show is to give us a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else that has podcast ratings. It takes just a few seconds to do and helps us out a lot. You don’t even have to write a review. Just rating the show is enough. Although, if you do write a review along with your five-star rating on Apple Podcasts, well read it on the show at some point in the future. Emily, Shep, and I will be back again soon. On the next episode of Almost Plausible.

[Outro music]

[Shep]
And did you think the signals were clear or not? Get in the comments!

[Thomas]
Yeah. Let’s have the audience settle this one.