Peter-Cover

Ep. 23

Cat Toy

05 July 2022

Runtime: 00:49:37

What do Indiana Jones, Winston Churchill, Al Capone, and a cat toy have in common? Previously the answer was, "nothing," but listen to this week's episode and you'll see how we manage to tie them all together. Joining us is special guest Peter J. Wacks, who brings more Hollywood experience than any of us can claim, as well as a few good puns.

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References

Transcript

[Intro music begins]

[Shep]
And then they realize, “Oh, our minds are being controlled.” I guess that’s much less about cat toys, though. The cat toys, the inciting incidents. But then…

[Peter]
Would this lead to a cataclysmic event?

[Shep]
I’m not ready for this.

[Emily]
Yes. Torture him.

[Thomas]
I knew I was going to be happy to invite you onto the show. We’ve made an excellent choice here having you.

[Peter]
Thank you.

[Intro music]

[Thomas]
Hey there, story fans. Welcome to Almost Plausible, the podcast where we take ordinary ideas and turn them into movies. I’m Thomas J. Brown, and joining me today are Emily-

[Emily]
Hey, guys.

[Thomas]
F. Paul Shepard-

[Shep]
Happy to be here.

[Thomas]
And special guest Peter J. Wacks.

[Peter]
Hello. Thanks for having me on.

[Thomas]
Well, we’re glad that you’re here, Peter. Now, you have the strongest connection to Hollywood of us, so tell us a bit about yourself, and your experience acting, writing, and whatever else it is you do in Tinseltown.

[Peter]
Well, I do a lot of stuff in the end out of Tinseltown, actually. I started as a child actor when I was, oh, gosh, four years old? Five years old? So at this point I’ve had a multi-decade career, but I’ve always been in creative and entertainment. So I moved out of acting when I was young into writing novels, specifically short stories, and made my first short story sales in high school, actually my first pro sale. And then I kind of veered to the side. I was like, “You know what? I love games and I love gaming, so I’m going to design a game.” So I designed Cyberpunk, the collectible card game, which is based in the R. Talsorian cyberpunk universe. After that, went back to the old passion of wanting to get my first novel out. But again, coming out of games, I had this whole, like, all the game stuff was still stuck in my head. So I ended up inventing a new plot structure. So my first book is a time travel novel that you can read in any order and you still get built up conflict resolution. And I’ve written many novels and short stories since. I have started, just doing more and more. I am an occasional magician. I’ve edited a metric ton of books. I moved back to California a few years ago, and I have started producing films as well. I’ve been script doctoring, writing some of my own scripts. And I’m jumping back into game design and I’ll be able to start talking more about what I’m actually going to be putting out, hopefully in late July.

[Thomas]
Cool, well unfortunately we now have to give this show to you, since you have so much more experience than any of us.

[Emily]
Yup.

[Thomas]
So, it was nice being on Almost Plausible.

[Peter]
Yeah. Let me just completely strip away any credibility that I had. All right. Hey, Emily-

[Emily]
Yup.

[Peter]
When does a joke turn into a dad joke?

[Emily]
I don’t know.

[Peter]
When it becomes apparent.

[Shep]
(Pained groans) Now there are two of them!

[Emily]
I was thinking of when it’s grown (groan). And I was like, “No, that’s-“

[Thomas]
That’s really good, too.

[Shep]
“When it’s grown” is really good.

[Peter]
Yeah!

[Thomas]
Peter, you said you started child acting at five or thereabouts.

[Peter]
I was four, I think? My first actual speaking roles, other than background work and stuff like that, was actually seven lines in Revenge of the Nerds.

[Thomas]
The first one?

[Peter]
Yeah, I was six or seven years old at the time. And it was during the big carnival scene. And depending on which cut of it you have, because I don’t think I made theatrical, but the little kid that’s asking his parents, like, what some of the booths are, that little kid is me.

[Thomas]
Cool. Well, that’s pretty neat. Well, very cool. Welcome to the show, and since you’re the guest, you are in control of today’s topic. What have you chosen for us?

[Peter]
Cat Toys.

[Thomas]
Purrfect. Now, of course, each episode of Almost Plausible starts out with a pitch session, where we will each take a turn sharing the ideas we’ve come up with for, in this case, a cat toy. Together, we’ll choose the pitch that interests us the most and develop it into a story. Peter, tell us your ideas for a cat toy.

[Peter]
So in Hollywood, you have to be able to- well, actually in publishing as well, you have to have what’s called the elevator pitch, the one sentence just like, “Damn, here it is.” All right, so here are my pitches. Journey to the center of the labyrinth. This is based around a ball of yarn. The great hunt of TSA Cats for the mighty god of escape. A story of laser pointers and the TSA. If we want to get a little bit dirty, a little bit more of a mature audience we could do The Cat Box to Narnia. “The Lion, The Witch, and the Cat Box,” I guess, would be the title for that one.

[Thomas]
Very good.

[Shep]
Would it be The Cat, the Witch and the…

[Peter]
It would be, yeah, The Cat, the Witch-

[Shep]
Did you have a lion and a cat?

[Peter]
It would be The Cat, the Witch and the Litter Box.

[Shep]
Is this a lion’s cat box? Because imagine the size.

[Peter]
It would get you to Narnia. It would get you out of the room. And then the fourth and final pitch that I came up with is Indiana Jones and the Quest for the Lost Toy, in which Nazis have gotten an ancient cat toy that is imbued with powers from the pyramids in Egypt.

[Shep]
Oh, yeah. Because Egypt and cats, hand in hand.

[Peter]
Yeah, Egypt, cats, Nazis, Harrison Ford. It’s got it all.

[Thomas]
It all fits.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
Yeah. All right, Shep, why don’t you tell us what you have?

[Shep]
Okay, so I’m thinking squeaky cat toys could go two ways. The significance could be on the squeakiness. So imagine a cat toy that squeaks at a specific frequency that unlocks something. So think of, like, the 2600hz Cap’n Crunch whistles use in phone phreaking.

[Thomas]
Nice. Yeah.

[Shep]
So someone’s on a cell phone call and playing with the toy and wants the other person to hear it. But when they squeak the toy into their phone, something unlocks, giving them the ability to …dot dot dot.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
Or here’s the other pitch. The cat toy part being significant. So a bizarre new cat toy becomes popular as it pacifies rowdy cats. So instead of running around with the zoomies, the cats curl up with the toys contentedly purring until perhaps (purrhaps? No, sorry! Now you got me doing it.) The toys are altering the cats, like, increasing their intelligence, connecting them wirelessly to the minds of the other cats. And suddenly they act in unison to take over the world. Or forget that one. Perhaps it just pacifies them so they stop acting out, and then someone takes apart the toy to figure out what makes it work and finds a device that’s also found in modern cell phones. Are our phones pacifying us as well? Also, what is it with me in phones? Oh, you can combine these. So instead of unlocking something, when they squeak the cat toy, it turns off the pacifying chip in their phone, so they no longer feel the need to constantly be on apps and constantly being doomscrolling and doing whatever and having them staring at their phones all the time.

[Thomas]
There you go.

[Shep]
And then they realize, “Oh, our minds are being controlled.” I guess that’s much less about cat toys, though. The cat toys, the inciting incidents. But then…

[Peter]
Would this lead to a cataclysmic event?

[Shep]
I’m not ready for this.

[Emily]
Yes. Torture him.

[Thomas]
I knew I was going to be happy to invite you onto the show. We’ve made an excellent choice here having you.

[Peter]
Thank you.

[Thomas]
All right, Emily, let’s hear yours.

[Emily]
All right, so I have three this week. A young ad executive trying to make a big name for himself at his agency is assigned a new large account for Squeaky’s Cat Toys. It’s his big shot, and he’s completely blocked. He cannot think of a single slogan, tagline, or jingle. So he takes the cat toy on a walk around the city, hoping some cosmic inspiration will hit, and he finds it in a coffee shop waiter. Together, they create the purrfect pitch, and they find a little love along the way. So, like a romance movie. And then they’d be, like, fighting. And “Who really came up with the idea” kind of thing. Second pitch is a young woman had to put her cat down. He’s been with her nearly her entire life. She’s having trouble letting go. She clings to his favorite cat toy and remembers their life together. So, you know, Marley & Me, but with a cat. And then, of course, a serial killer leaves a homemade squeaky cat toy on all his victims, like, in their mouth or something really creepy like that. And it’s clear that he’s played with the victims before they died, and it’s just creepy and gross.

[Shep]
All I can picture is the scene from Silence of the Lambs where they’re pulling the moth out of the mouth. But in now it’s a squeaky cat toy.

[Emily]
Yeah, it’s a squeaky cat took away.

[Shep]
And as they pull it out, it squeaks.

[Emily]
Yup.

[Shep]
It really changes the dynamic of that scene.

[Thomas]
It feels like it should be one of those movies where there are Muppets, so there’s like a Muppet hand pulling the cat toy out of the mouth.

[Emily]
We Meet the Feebles.

[Thomas]
The Muppet is a detective. All right, I have three pitches. Two of mine are little elevator pitches, and one of mine is like a novella. So buckle up. First pitch a movie with both animation and live footage. So think kind of like Paddington, where a mouse cat toy comes to life and thinks that it’s a real mouse. Not quite sure what the plot is. Hopefully not too close to Stuart Little, although the plot of that movie is bonkers.

[Peter]
I’m feeling a little Pinocchio.

[Thomas]
Yeah, there you go.

[Emily]
Some of the Velveteen Rabbit meets the… what’s the mouse with the motorcycle?

[Shep]
The Mouse and The Motorcycle. Yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah, Mouse and The Motorcycle.

[Thomas]
My second idea is a literal cat burglar that uses toys in its crimes. So, string to rappel, a squeaky toy to distract, a laser pointer to blind cameras. And then my longer one here. So there’s a tribe of feral cats, and they are descended from domesticated house cats and they live in the woods. They revere a ratty old squeaky cat toy as a sort of talisman that brings power and status. The elder king cat and current keeper of the talisman has become a bit of a fat cat abusing his station for his own privilege. A young commoner cat is sick of his corrupt dominion, so she decides to steal the talisman and dispose of it with the goal of fomenting an egalitarian revolution. She sneaks into the elder’s chambers and nearly gets away with the talisman cleanly, except that something happens, causing the cat toy to squeak and a chase ensues. She barely escapes into the woods, still with the talisman. The next day, another young cat finds her. It’s the prince. He tells her half the kingdom is out looking for her and the talisman. She tries to explain her ideology to him, but he will have none of it. As they’re headed back to the colony, a wild animal attacks and they get lost. Perhaps the talisman is lost along the way as well. Now they have to work together to escape the wild animal, retrieve the talisman, and find their way back home. As they spend more time together, they get to know each other better. He eventually starts to soften his stance, and by the time they make it back, he’s come around, or nearly so. Perhaps he seems like he’s going to go back to being a snotty royal, but then realizes everything she said was true and so he helps to depose of his father.

[Shep]
Well, we’re out of time.

[Emily]
All right, good story. Think we’ve finished.

[Thomas]
Is there one that sticks out to everybody?

[Shep]
Yeah, Indiana Jones and The Quest for The Lost Cat Toy.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s the one I like, too.

[Shep]
Yeah, I stopped listening after that.

[Emily]
I have an unpopular opinion.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Shep]
Oh, go ahead.

[Emily]
It should include Shia LaBeouf. Yeah, he’s bat shit crazy. But, man, is he good looking.

[Shep]
He’s the villain.

[Emily]
Yeah!

[Thomas]
Do we even want to explore any others? I mean, I like this one. I’m happy to go down this road.

[Emily]
No, this one sounds good. I like this one.

[Thomas]
All right, well, it sounds like we’re going to do Indiana Jones. So this story is Indiana Jones actually Indiana Jones? Or is it like a cat?

[Shep]
Is the movie about cats? Are cats playing the roles or is it just the cat toy?

[Peter]
You well so what’s our target audience? If we’re going to go Pixar, if we’re going to go, you know, Disneyesque, then, yeah, we want the cats. If we’re going to go award nominated, then animatronic cats. But if you want to go general audience, I think human actors.

[Thomas]
Yeah, if it’s like this is the next Indiana Jones movie… Actually, that could work because weren’t they sort of positioning Shia LaBeouf to be the next Indiana to take over the franchise?

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
So this could be the next one.

[Shep]
Oh, his name is Mutt. So is it human actors or is it animated animals? Because I could imagine Shia LaBeouf voicing a dog named Mutt in the Son-of-Indiana-Jones role. We don’t call it Indiana Jones.

[Peter]
So here’s my thoughts on that. If you’re going to go for Shia LaBeouf, then go for all the ladies that want to scratch on that post a little bit.

[Emily]
Finally, somebody who thinks like me.

[Peter]
I think we have that he’s hot, so we know why he’s cast. So, yeah. Live action?

[Emily]
Yes.

[Shep]
So Harrison Ford is 1000 years old, so it can’t be Indiana Jones and the anything because Indiana Jones can’t be in it. So what do you call the son of Indiana Jones movie?

[Emily]
Son of Indiana Jones.

[Thomas]
Indiana Jr.

[Shep]
Oooh. Because his name was Junior.

[Peter]
That works.

[Thomas]
I like that he’s Mutt. Because one of the nice things about Indiana Jones was he had that sort of curmudgeonly edge at times. If he’s pursuing a cat related mystery or adventure or whatever, and he is Mutt, then he can sort of dislike cats and always be like “Ugh, cats.”

[Shep]
“Why does it always got to be cats?”

[Emily]
“Why does it always got to be cats?”

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Peter]
Also, you can go for, like, “Indiana Jones, the lost journals,” and have him just as a really old man, and he’s passing his notes on to students, trying to stop, “Oh, the Nazis are going to come back. It’s the ’60s now.” Divvying out the adventure.

[Emily]
Is it the Nazis or is it the Red Scare? Do we just transfer the evil because 60s, 50s, it would be communists.

[Thomas]
That’s a good point. When does the last one, Crystal Skull? When does that take place?

[Emily]
50s.

[Shep]
Never, because it’s not canon. It didn’t happen.

[Emily]
It is not as bad as Temple as Doom.

[Thomas]
We’re not friends.

[Shep]
What? 100% disagree.

[Thomas]
I’m going to kick you off the Zoom call.

[Emily]
No, rewatch Temple of Doom. It’s the worst. I’m sorry, I might be scarred from childhood of seeing that in the theaters.

[Thomas]
1957, it says. But I like that idea of making it sort of a prequel type of thing.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Shep]
They had the Young Indiana Jones Adventures TV show.

[Thomas]
I used to watch that show.

[Peter]
But that took place back in the 1920s, 1930s.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Actually, that could work really well with, like, British colonialism and when were they digging up all of the tombs and everything in Egypt?

[Emily]
Teens and 20s.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s what I was thinking.

[Emily]
I think King Tut they found in the 20s.

[Thomas]
So that actually could work really well.

[Peter]
Okay, so we’re going back to young Indiana?

[Thomas]
We could. And since Crystal Skull is not canon, we can push Shia LaBeouf wherever we want. He can be Indiana Jones. It doesn’t matter.

[Peter]
There you go.

[Emily]
Yeah, we can skip Shia LaBeouf and just hire somebody else.

[Shep]
So we don’t have Shia LaBeouf. We don’t have any of the Mutt and cat jokes. It’s just young Indiana Jones. Am I understanding this correctly? Okay. So who’s the villain?

[Thomas]
Do we want to make the bad guy some sort of Nazi-esque thing? There’s some person who’s trying to get a lot of power. Or maybe they just want all the gold or something along those lines. Or maybe there’s an artifact in one of the tombs that is rumored to give some sort of godly power, and they want that because they want to take over the world.

[Shep]
Oh, make the villain British.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
British make good villains. It’s the accent.

[Thomas]
King Tut’s tomb was opened in 1922. So if we set it then, this could all sort of center around that. There was the supposed curse, and a whole bunch of people died. So maybe we’re saying that the villain killed these people? The curse wasn’t that the tomb was cursed. It was that this person who’s trying to steal the artifacts is murdering people who are involved to get them out of the way.

[Peter]
Okay, so side idea: What was Churchill up to? I think he’d already gotten back from India. That was back in, like, 1890s that came back from India, I think? So what was Churchill up to? Because I’m thinking we can start a little bit of mash up here. We can bring in Churchill, maybe like, some of Her Majesty’s special guards and start to have some intrigue.

[Emily]
Could we involve the Freemasons in any way?

[Peter]
They’re kind of like ninjas. You know they’re in something because they’re not there.

[Thomas]
So from 1922 to 1924, he spent the first part of that near Cannes and was painting and writing. He was just, like, on vacation during that time, basically.

[Peter]
Yes.

[Shep]
At least that’s the cover story.

[Peter]
What a perfect cover.

[Emily]
Wow.

[Peter]
Thank you, history. You knew what we were going to want to do.

[Shep]
So how old is Indiana during this time? Because Churchill is 48.

[Peter]
You know, we’re putting way more thought into canon than producers actually do. In my experience, “I don’t know. Just write the thing.” Writers figure it out.

[Emily]
he’d be like his early 20s. Late… early 20s.

[Thomas]
His birth was July 1st, 1899, according to IndianaJones.fandom.com.

[Peter]
Okay, so 23.

[Shep]
So Churchill’s is late 40s.

[Thomas]
So I feel like the MacGuffin has to be some sort of a cat toy.

[Emily]
Right.

[Peter]
Oh, yeah.

[Thomas]
Oh, it’s like a scarab cat toy.

[Emily]
Nice.

[Thomas]
Like, we have mice. They had scarabs.

[Emily]
I was thinking they have those staffs with the light on it to illuminate things, but it was actually just a laser pointer.

[Thomas]
A laser pointer, that’s very funny. Do we find out at the end that it’s a cat toy? Do we not know the entire time? And then at the end, they’re like, “What, that? No, that’s just some cat toy. That’s nothing special.”

[Shep]
Who would know that?

[Thomas]
Some archaeologists.

[Peter]
It would have to be like, in hieroglyphs.

[Emily]
Right.

[Peter]
Like, all of a sudden they realize, like, they find some hidden hieroglyphs and they’re holding up like the staff of divine power, and the light is shining through and the cats chasing it. Now, the other thing that we could play with is the idea of a cat toy worthy of the Sphinx.

[Emily]
Oh, yeah.

[Peter]
“What has one has one squeaker at dawn, two tails at noon…” So I’m remembering the Holy Grail, the holy man prostates himself dodges the saws. Maybe the Sphinx’s riddle actually gives you the keys to get past the traps.

[Shep]
So you crawl through the first place, you walk to the second room, and you have to use the staff that has the thing at the top in the third room.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Peter]
And if you don’t hit the right things on the floor with it as you go, the chamber goes glorp.

[Thomas]
So is there a room inside the Sphinx or not in real life? I mean, we can just say there is. It’s a movie.

[Peter]
Right. We could.

[Shep]
So legend has it that there is a maze below the paws of the Sphinx that leads to the mystery-shrouded Hall of Records, where all essential knowledge of alchemy, astronomy, mathematics, magic, and medicine is stored.

[Emily]
Well, this all just makes sense because you need the cat toy to get it to raise its paws and distraction, so you can get into the maze, so you can get to the thing.

[Shep]
And that’s where you use the ball of yarn to get through the labyrinth.

[Thomas]
This thing is writing itself.

[Emily]
It’s like it was meant to be.

[Thomas]
So what is the big bad after.

[Shep]
The Hall of Records!

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Peter]
The Hall of Records and the ancient, like, those scrolls which predate the Dead Sea Scrolls will be found underneath the sphinx. And were rescued from the Library of Alexandria before it burnt and hidden there.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
There’s the actual formula for turning lead into gold.

[Thomas]
Maybe that’s the one specific thing that he’s looking for. He’s like, “I don’t really care about the rest of the knowledge. That’s what I’m after.”

[Peter]
Yeah, right. Maybe something in like Newton’s diaries leads them there. He was obsessed with the Tablets of Hermes and the Emerald Tablets, and the Philosopher Stone to turn lead into gold. We could pull in a lot of fun stuff. So the question is, are we actually working to build the Indiana Jones prequel, or is it going to be a fan film that Shia LaBeouf said yes to?

[Thomas]
I mean, I like the freedom that, at the very least, not having to be an Indiana Jones movie provides us.

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
We can do whatever we want. And then where on that spectrum we land, I think determines, like, is it its own standalone thing, or is it a fan film?

[Peter]
Okay. All right. So our hero is no longer Indiana Jones. Montana Smith.

[Thomas]
Well, now it is, obviously.

[Emily]
Certainly.

[Shep]
The dog’s name was Montana. The cat’s name was Montana.

[Peter]
The cat’s name, yes. So what draws our young hero out? We need an inciting incident. I mean, if we’re going to do this right, we got to figure out what our inciting is. So where does it start?

[Thomas]
Are we setting this in the 20s. Did we like all of that convergence of stuff?

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Emily]
Yeah, I think that works really good, though.

[Thomas]
Okay.

[Peter]
I love it.

[Thomas]
Is Montana an adventurer? Is Montana British, or what is their nationality?

[Shep]
I figured American.

[Thomas]
Yeah. If they’re named Montana, that would make sense.

[Shep]
I think that if he’s that young and if you still want to pull in Churchill, like, Churchill is the adventurer, and he’s bringing this kid along with him on his adventure. So Montana is the sidekick, kind of. It’s like his first big adventure because he’s just going along with Churchill’s adventure.

[Peter]
So he’s studying under Churchill or come to meet Churchill, or-

[Emily]
Was he like a stowaway who ended up in Europe and met him in the south of France and then Churchill took a shine to him, so he’s taking them on this grand adventure with him?

[Thomas]
Is Montana up from money or not?

[Shep]
No, Montana is super poor. That’s why at the end, when he’s tempted with the formula for turning lead into gold…

[Thomas]
Oh, yeah.

[Peter]
Right. He’s going to overcome and show the moral virtue. Yeah, spot on. So, yeah, stowaway. Totally a stowaway. What if his dad died World War I and he stowed away to go try and find where his dad died? That would draw us over to Churchill because Churchill was in military service.

[Shep]
Was there a lot of world war I action in Egypt?

[Peter]
“January 1915 to October of 1918 the Sinai and Palestine campaigns of the Middle Eastern theater of World War I were fought by the Arab Revolt and the British Empire against the Ottoman Empire and its Imperial German allies.” So the answer is yes.

[Shep]
Okay, follow up question. Why is his American father fighting with the British in Egypt?

[Thomas]
American mother, British father.

[Peter]
Well, I think that was just a slam dunk.

[Thomas]
I think that we have enough of a set of details to reasonably have them together.

[Peter]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
I feel like beyond this point, it’s like little details. We have those broad strokes.

[Peter]
We’re just getting these details. Might as well start writing.

[Emily]
Right.

[Shep]
So who is the villain?

[Thomas]
Is it somebody who’s a world power? Who’s Churchill’s nemesis in the 20s?

[Peter]
Did he even have one?

[Emily]
Anyone that’s not British?

[Peter]
No. I mean, we’ve got to get a good-

[Emily]
I mean, they still wouldn’t trust the Germans. We could start with the Germans. It could be the beginning of that.

[Peter]
Capone.

[Shep]
Capone?!

[Thomas]
Wow. Wow.

[Emily]
Al Capone?

[Shep]
Because it’s the 20s?

[Thomas]
Interesting.

[Shep]
What’s the- How do they-

[Emily]
Is that what was supposed to be in his vault?

[Peter]
He’s going to get busted eventually for tax evasion. Might as well have him go after some money, right?

[Shep]
In Egypt?!

[Emily]
Yeah, why not? He’s got money.

[Shep]
Was he in the Freemasons?

[Emily]
No, he wouldn’t have been because he would have been Catholic. Because he’s Italian and in the mob and Masons don’t like Catholics.

[Shep]
Oh. So if you want to keep Capone in, now have him not be the villain, but have him be the reason that Montana is fleeing America and stows away on a ship. Because he was trying to recover something. Because he’s got that sense of justice and rightness. And so Capone, who’s a villain, had stolen these items, and Montana wanted to… they belong in a museum, and so he’s trying to steal them back, and he gets caught, and so he’s fleeing from Capone, and he ends up on a ship.

[Thomas]
So Capone left New York City for Chicago in 1919, so it could be around that same time that-

[Peter]
That he heads over.

[Thomas]
Right, from New York City.

[Peter]
That’s a good start. So who would Capone ask to chase this kid down, and has this kid pissed off Capone enough?

[Thomas]
Does Capone have some sort of a journal that details this stuff and the kids stole it from him, and that’s why the kid is in Egypt, because the journal says to go there? That’s why he’s in Europe, because he’s tracking down clues?

[Shep]
Stolen artifacts?

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
This is the journal that shows who purchased all of the items. So the kid wants it to get the items back. But Capone wants to get it back because it’s evidence of the crimes he committed.

[Peter]
Right. He is a mob boss, so he’s got to have his hands in that.

[Thomas]
Sure.

[Shep]
So this explains why he couldn’t just give up and let the kid go. Because the kid still has the evidence.

[Peter]
And we have an ever-present danger where we know that the villain is going to outlast the film, which makes it an interesting byplay and gives us a little more of that, like, we don’t actually know necessarily what’s going to happen because we can’t just off Capone unless you put a doppelganger in his place.

[Shep]
So why does Capone ever stop chasing Montana? Because Montana fakes his death and lives the rest of his life under a fake name.

[Peter]
Indiana Jones.

[Emily]
Mussolini also came into power at this time.

[Shep]
We got too much. Too many. We already have Indiana Jones and Hitler together in one of the movies, so-

[Peter]
Okay. So we got Capone, which is a great villainous, like, keyed into pop culture. As a villain. We’ve got like endless mobs of mobsters.

[Shep]
Mobs.

[Emily]
Right.

[Peter]
And a cat toy.

[Thomas]
All right, well, this seems like a good time to take a break, so we’ll take a little cat nap and be right back.

[Break]

[Thomas]
All right. We are back.

[Shep]
So is Churchill still in it?

[Thomas]
I was thinking about that during the break. I think, okay, so this is an action movie, right?

[Peter]
Action-adventure.

[Shep]
Adventure.

[Thomas]
Yeah, adventure. So it has to start out with an action sequence to hook audiences. So I feel like that could be Montana running away from some mobsters who are chasing him. He has the journal. We’re sort of starting to see real early on like, “Oh, this guy’s clever and he’s young and sprightly,” and he ends up hiding on a ship to escape from the guys chasing him. Turns out it’s Churchill’s ship that he’s stowed away on, bringing back that idea that I believe Emily mentioned earlier. So that’s kind of how we bring Churchill into it. Churchill thinks, this is great. He’s on vacation. He’s super entertained by this. He’s like, “Whatever, the kid can stay, I don’t care.” Because the kid proves to be charming and interesting and maybe even Churchill recognizes the significance of the journal that he has.

[Peter]
That’s pretty solid. That’s awesome. So Churchill recognizes the significance.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Peter]
So the inciting incident is the theft. We’re literally coming, like, right out of the gate without explaining why he stole this journal because we can do that in backstory layers later or whatever. We don’t even necessarily have to. So we’re coming right out of this with the theft. We’re showing clever, engaging, charismatic, pulse pounding. Churchill spots this thing and then we fast cut to the other side of the ocean. Or do we just have Churchill recognizing this, starting to crack it with him? I mean, the idea of an ocean journey is, on film, kind of boring.

[Shep]
Right. That’s why they do the map and then they just do the dots.

[Thomas]
Yeah. So I like the idea that Churchill had like, changes his plan. He was going to do one thing, but then this opportunity presented itself. He’s like, “Alright, this seems fun.”

[Emily]
I like that.

[Shep]
I like the idea of Churchill working to decrypt the journal that’s been encoded with his military training or whatever, and maybe teaching Montana how to do it. That’s how they’re spending the ocean journey.

[Thomas]
That’s good.

[Peter]
Right. So you could do that with almost montage, just a bunch of quick intercuts.

[Thomas]
Along with the map dots thing.

[Emily]
Yeah.

[Thomas]
To show like they’re traveling. And here’s how they’re passing the time and getting to know each other better and building that rapport that they need to have for the upcoming adventure.

[Peter]
And you could have some stops along the way as they’re headed towards Egypt, start to introduce other locales, potential allies and villains for later. Have them get spotted by Capone’s men. Or, you know, it’s international. I think there’s got to be an international something that Capone is tapped into. I mean, he’s powerful, but there’s got to be more. There like the brotherhood of evil, or-

[Shep]
So I was picturing a scene where they arrive in England or wherever the ship is going, and Montana thinks, “Okay, thanks for your help. I’m going to make my way down to Egypt for the next step.” And Churchill is like, “What are you talking about? Obviously I’m going. You wouldn’t last fortnight without me. So obviously I’m going to go and supervise.”

[Peter]
I’m seeing a still-thin Churchill. And I’m seeing the cigar and I’m seeing, like, pulling the cigar out, “We cracked the book together, my boy. We’re going to find it together.”

[Emily]
Right.

[Thomas]
What if Montana ditches him in Southampton or London or wherever they end up and then… They’ve decrypted it, he knows now that this is something really valuable. He wants to get it all for himself, something along those lines.

[Shep]
I thought that he didn’t want the money. I thought that he wanted to return these artifacts or whatever.

[Thomas]
Or whatever it is. He wants to get there. He wants to do it without Churchill.

[Shep]
Oh, maybe Churchill wants it for like the British Museum.

[Emily and Thomas]
Yeah.

[Emily]
I was just going to say that Churchill wants it to further the exploits of British.

[Shep]
Churchill is the one that says the line, “It belongs in a museum.”

[Thomas]
Excellent.

[Peter]
Nice.

[Thomas]
Very good.

[Peter]
So if we’re going to go there, though, we have to have it a little… That beat, that split, would have to be just a little bit later because it’s got to build the relationship with them so that it’s actually a hard choice to step away from the support network and this mentor figure to go after it himself.

[Thomas]
That’s a good point. What I was thinking though, is that Montana gets away from him thinking, “Ahaha, I’m so clever.” And by the time he gets there, Churchill’s just chilling out, waiting. He’s been working on a painting. He’s like, “Oh, you’re finally here. I brought all the supplies we need.” He’s like, “I know where you’re going. The pyramids aren’t going anywhere, and I can get there faster than you.”

[Peter]
Yeah, I like that.

[Thomas]
Or something to that effect. Or maybe he meets him at the Strait of Gibraltar because he knows he has to go through there and something like that. Something where Montana thinks he’s going to slip away and Churchill proves he’s no dummy either. And then they decide to work together.

[Peter]
Yeah, I like that idea. So in the first act, you’ve got them building the relationship. And so the end of the first act or the first story piece is going to be the fracture. Right? And then you split apart. And the second act focused on Montana is him actually becoming slightly world-wise as he figures out how to get down to Egypt. And then, of course, intro the third act for fun and games and, oh, look who’s already here.

[Shep]
I like that. Especially if, depending on how much time you have Churchill and Montana together, Montana does some of the things that he watched Churchill do in order to navigate various roadblocks, showing that he is learning and actually gaining a lot from having spent that time with Churchill. So later when Churchill shows up again, Montana also is no dummy, and he’s like, “Well, maybe it would still be beneficial to spend some more time with this guy.”

[Thomas]
Can Montana be in a jam, back against the wall sort of thing? The mobsters have found him, and Churchill swoops in and rescues him.

[Peter]
It almost feels better to have an active character choice made. Like something where he gets backed into a corner and he manages to send a letter and he asks Churchill for help.

[Shep]
So what’s the situation that he gets himself in, that…? He gets arrested and he gets, you know, you can make one telegram. I don’t know.

[Thomas]
I don’t know how he would know to like how would he know where to send a telegram to reach Churchill.

[Shep]
These are all good questions. How does he ask Churchill for help?

[Peter]
Idea! Say, Emily, who was just coming into power at that time?

[Shep]
Oh, no.

[Emily]
Mussolini.

[Peter]
Maybe Montana gets in trouble in Italy.

[Emily]
With Mussolini!

[Peter]
And Montana is like, “I’m friends with Churchill.” A viable political connection that would give Montana the outreach, alert the Vatican that some hijinks was going on with artifacts because now you’ve got even more fun players here. You’ve got Capone, got potential Mussolini interference and the Vatican. At the end of this, we’re going to be like, wait, who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? This is just like Big Trouble in Little China. Everybody’s just going at it.

[Thomas]
Right. I like that grayness, though, where no one’s totally good and totally evil.

[Emily]
Right.

[Peter]
Right. And the only real cultural claim at that point becomes that at the time, Egypt was a British colony, right? Which really does tie Montana, Mussolini, Capone, Churchill all together because it’s happening in British territory. So what you’re really doing is you’re building actually two character arcs here. You’re showing the political suaveness of a Churchill who’s not quite the Churchill that we will be seeing 15 to 20 years later.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Peter]
You’re seeing a younger version of that who’s just starting to learn to manipulate the international stage and try to do that as that character arc. Meanwhile, the more important and closer to the heart character arc for the viewers is going to be clever Montana, who’s managing to keep himself alive even though he is so in the wrong weight class for any of this.

[Thomas]
I like the idea that Churchill’s intersection with Montana is helping Churchill grow and strengthening his position, giving him that early practice that he needs to become the world leader that, as you said, Peter, we’re going to know him as.

[Peter]
Right.

[Thomas]
So our character is not just sort of there reacting. He’s actually proactive in world events.

[Peter]
Shep is a little skeptical. I can hear it.

[Emily]
Yup. He’s always skeptical.

[Shep]
Am I? So if I’m understanding this correctly, Capone has ties to the mob in Italy?

[Emily]
Yeah, that actually makes sense. That checks out.

[Peter]
Yeah.

[Shep]
And arranges for locals to be on the lookout for Montana. Why is Montana in Italy?

[Peter]
The reason that you go through Italy is just the world stage in the 1920s. You’ve got a 23-year-old guy from the states on this epic quest, may or may not have a cat toy into the equation as of yet, so far. Is he going to go down through Spain, across the straits and then go across Africa? Or is he going to go through Europe, down to Italy, and then just straight across?

[Thomas]
Yeah, I think his plan would be to head from England across to France, get a train from probably Paris to Rome. Seems like a reasonable trip that he would be able to find, and landmarks that a that-period-of-time American would be like, “Oh, I know of those places.” And then probably a boat from Rome to, I don’t know, Alexandria? I don’t know where a boat would land. But he’s got to get to Cairo, right?

[Peter]
I’m feeling the red dot journey.

[Thomas]
Yeah, right. That’s like an excuse for him to be in Rome.

[Peter]
Okay, Shep, I’ll tell you what. In 1922, the only trains, the closest he could get would be Paris. And the overland from Paris to get down to a port city and actually take a boat to Egypt would be twice the distance as if you went down to Milan in northern Italy and then just headed down to Rome.

[Shep]
Okay. It checks out historically. Okay.

[Peter]
It does.

[Shep]
No further objection, your Honor.

[Thomas]
We’ve got to have some cat motifs sprinkled in.

[Peter]
Oh, yeah.

[Emily]
Of course.

[Thomas]
Churchill’s got to have a cat on the ship. Right?

[Shep]
A little kitten?

[Thomas]
Did he have a bulldog? Wasn’t that his thing?

[Shep]
He was the bulldog.

[Thomas]
Didn’t he have one?

[Emily]
Been a long time since I watched season one and two of The Crown.

[Shep]
“Churchill was an animal lover. He had pet cats and dogs, such as his bulldog Dodo, poodle Rufus, wartime cat Nelson, and marmalade cat Jock.”

[Peter]
There we go.

[Thomas]
Excellent.

[Peter]
Perfect.

[Thomas]
All right, Peter, you brought up a really good point. We got to get the cat toy back in here.

[Emily]
I like the idea if we introduce some cats for Churchill, like a marmalade kitten that will later be his friend. Kind of playing with the talisman or whatever.

[Shep]
Does he have the talisman at the beginning?

[Peter]
I’m starting to feel like it needs to.

[Shep]
Oh, it’s a regular cat toy. We have Churchill right at the beginning, right? And Churchill has his cats on the ship. And since Montana is spending all this time with him, he’s spending all the time with the cat. So you can see Montana playing with the cat with a little cat toy. For some reason, he ends up with that cat toy, and he keeps it with him. He still has it, like you said, like a good luck charm. So later, at the end, when you find the MacGuffin, he’s the one who realizes it’s a cat toy because he has the other cat toy to compare it to.

[Thomas]
It could be something where, so we see that cat toy. We know Churchill has it, and then at the end, Churchill ends up stealing the MacGuffin from him by swapping it out, and he doesn’t realize it. He feels it’s in his pocket. “Okay, whew, I still have it.” And then later, he pulls it out, and it’s the cat toy. And he’s like, “Oh, crap.”

[Shep]
See, I’d like it if Montana stole it.

[Thomas]
It goes the other way around.

[Shep]
It’s in a box or something. So he steals the actual artifact out of the box and puts it in his pocket. But then later, when he checks, it’s the cat toy, and Churchill has swapped it.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Peter]
Shep, yes and no.

[Shep]
Oh, go ahead, jump in.

[Peter]
I think you’re really onto something with Montana stealing it. But King Fuad of Egypt, his coronation was in 1922, which is right when we are.

[Thomas]
It’s a busy year.

[Peter]
I think that at his coronation, he gave a present to Churchill, and Churchill uses it as a cat toy and Montana steals it, and it turns out to be the key the whole time.

[Shep]
Ah, but see, it’s such a coincidence that that’s the key. I like tying in the-

[Peter]
You have Fuad give him this really valuable artifact, but Churchill just loves his cats, so he lets them play with it. Churchill knows that it belongs in the box on whatever blah, blah, blah. But no, the cats just have a will of their own.

[Thomas]
It could even be something where nobody even realizes a key is going to be necessary. And they get there, and then Montana is the one who recognizes, “Oh, wait, that’s that thing. Go get that thing that the cats have been playing with. We need that to move on.”

[Shep]
But it’s such a coincidence that they have the thing that they needed.

[Thomas]
That’s a good point.

[Peter]
Okay, so back that up. Still the coronation, still a gift or something like that, but it’s not the actual artifact, but something where the shape has been used and passed down, and they just make them as these things. And Fuad knows that Churchill also loves cats, so he gives him one of his cat toys, and that shape unlocks the puzzle for them at the end. Even though it’s not the correct key, it lets them find the other thing because it’s generational knowledge.

[Emily]
It’s like girls in the 90s and the ankh.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Emily]
It’s just a thing that looks cool.

[Peter]
Right. It’s a thing that looks cool, not the actual artifact. You’re dying a little inside. I can just hear it.

[Shep]
It’s such a coincidence!

[Emily]
He hates coincidences.

[Thomas]
I agree. It’s like saying, “Oh, we just make keys that look like this one random key. I don’t know, whatever.” And then they show up to a lock, and they’re like, “I wonder if it happens to be this key. Oh, yes. It opens the lock.” So I see what you’re saying.

[Shep]
I like the timing of the coronation.

[Thomas]
Yes.

[Shep]
That’s a thing that coincidentally is happening around that same time, and I think that we should tie it in somehow.

[Peter]
Shall we bring them there during the coronation, maybe?

[Emily]
Did Churchill take Montana to the British Museum and kind of like, show him the great Egyptian exhibit and show him everything that they have. And then… I was trying to think of some way they could pick it up at the museum.

[Peter]
Thank you. Yeah, you just nailed something awesome. The end of Act One could take place at the museum, and you could actually have Montana recognize something in one of the wings from the journal on one of the sarcophagi or something like that. And then you could actually have him in a nice little mirror to the beginning of the film with Capone break in, break the piece off the sarcophagus because he recognizes it from the journal.

[Shep]
But doesn’t he want to preserve stuff? Isn’t that his whole deal?

[Thomas]
Well, that’s why I was just thinking, if his goal is to preserve that sort of stuff, I like the idea that they get whatever it is, and Churchill wants to take it back to put it in the collection, because “This crown jewel is missing from the collection, and if only we could find it.” And he’s like, “I think this kid has the key that I need, the journal, the map that will get me there.” The kid realizes what Churchill is up to, and he’s like, “Oh, there’s no way I’m going to let that happen.” So Churchill thinks, “Oh, great, we’ve got it.” The kid swipes it from him, takes it to the coronation, and presents it as a coronation gift, which Churchill turns around and takes credit for being this world leader. Like, “See, the British government’s not all bad. We’ll let you keep some of your crap.”

[Shep]
I like that a lot because it ties the coronation back in.

[Peter]
I like all of that but one thing.

[Thomas]
What’s that?

[Peter]
I don’t like the motivation for Montana at this young age being to preserve artifacts. I think that’s who he grows into, not who he starts as.

[Shep]
Right. No, later. He wants them in museums, but I think at the beginning, he wants to return them to the rightful owners.

[Thomas]
Oh, this is the inciting incident for that journey of his life. He realizes that’s the only good thing to do with it, is to make sure the Egyptian government has it. It’s the only smart move. And so that’s why he does it. And then he ends up realizing, “Oh, this meant actually a lot to these people, especially in light of how much the British have taken from them.” Here’s this huge artifact that everyone’s been looking for, and he maybe is lauded as a hero for doing that. And he’s like, “Oh, this feels good.”

[Shep]
So he wanted it for himself is what you’re saying.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
He wanted it for himself the whole time.

[Thomas]
Right.

[Shep]
And at the end, when he realized he couldn’t keep it because it would be taken from him, he gives it to the king as a coronation gift and then is lauded for it. And that’s the change in him.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Yes.

[Peter]
Yeah, I think he starts kind of roguish.

[Thomas]
And so that’s his character arc right there.

[Shep]
Okay, I’m back on board.

[Thomas]
So he must be, like, super duper in debt. Maybe that’s the deal with Capone. Maybe he’s being chased because he owes money. He’s in Capone’s office being shaken down, somehow sees an opportunity, grabs the journal, jumps out the window, hightails it down to the docks, hides on the ship.

[Shep]
I like that. If he’s in Capone’s office, that’s why he’s in the office. He’s being shaken down because he owes Capone money. Capone steps out for a moment for some important, whatever, Elliot Ness is at the door or whatever, and so he just grabs what he can see.

[Thomas]
Maybe there’s some money on top of the journey. Just grabs the whole thing or some bills sticking out of it or something like that.

[Shep]
Oh yeah. He just grabs it.

[Thomas]
Or a gold coin or whatever. He sees something that he thinks is valuable, so he grabs it and runs.

[Peter]
Yeah, I love that.

[Shep]
So at the end, if he gives it up, he’s still in the same situation where he owes Capone a buttload of money.

[Peter]
Yes. That’s what we call a sequel.

[Shep]
That’s the stinger at the end credit scene. He thinks it’s all good, and then he gets on the boat. And then its-

[Peter]
Yeah. He’s an international hero, blah, blah, blah. And then the stinger is Capone’s office.

[Thomas]
Yeah. Oh, my God. There will be newspaper articles with his photo.

[Peter]
Da da da da da. Spinning paper.

[Thomas]
That’s the end. The paper lands on Capone’s desk. And he’s like, “Pack your bags, boys.”

[Shep]
That’s great.

[Thomas]
We’re getting very close to the end of our time here. What major details do we not have? How- Is the cat toy integrated enough into this story? Is it okay if the MacGuffin turns out to be a cat toy the whole time?

[Shep]
Well, that’s why I said you have two cat toys. You have the one that he has that’s Churchill’s cat toy, and then the artifact that you find at the end is the Egyptian’s cat toy.

[Thomas]
I mean, is it an Egyptian’s cat toy, or is it just something that happens to be the same roughly size, shape and weight as Churchill’s cat toy? And so he’s able to use the cat toy as a swap?

[Shep]
No, I think it has to also be a cat toy because Egyptians worshipped cats, it fits. The episode is Cat Toys.

[Thomas]
I’m just making sure.

[Peter]
Yes. And it’s there from the get-go all the way to the end.

[Thomas]
Okay. All right. Are there any other major details we need to work out?

[Peter]
Okay, so I got to say, modern storytelling. We’ve got Mussolini, we’ve got Churchill, we’ve got Montana Jones.

[Thomas]
No Montana Williams. No, Montana Smith.

[Shep]
Montana Smith.

[Peter]
Montana Smith, sorry, Montana Smith. And we’ve got Al Capone. I think I’m going to throw one last curveball at you.

[Thomas]
Okay. All right, let’s hear it.

[Peter]
I think we’re going to gender flip Montana.

[Shep]
Yeah, no objection.

[Emily]
Yeah, we’re all for that. Always.

[Shep]
Yeah, that’s fine.

[Peter]
Awesome.

[Shep]
I mean, their name isn’t Montano. It’s a feminine name to begin with.

[Thomas]
Right. Well, we would love to hear your thoughts on today’s show. Was it the cat’s pajamas or just a cat in a sack? Let us know by leaving a comment on our website, reaching out on social media, or sending us an email. Links to all of those can be found at AlmostPlausible.com Peter, before we sign off, what exciting stuff do you want people to know about?

[Peter]
Keep an eye on my social media. I have a really cool game that we’re going to start making announcements about in the next couple of months. Also, I will have a book coming out next year that’s really fun. 1870s con games in China with the son of a ronin and an American gunfighter who lost his arm during the Civil War, basically tracking down and running confidence games on criminals for the local Chinese constables.

[Shep]
Why didn’t we write a movie about that? That sounds-

[Emily]
Yeah, that sounds awesome.

[Thomas]
Because he’s already writing the book about it.

[Shep]
Fine. What’s your social media?

[Peter]
My social media is always forward slash or @ Peter J. Wacks (W-A-C-K-S) across social media. Facebook, Twitter, soon YouTube. I’ll be launching YouTube soon. You can always find me at that tag, just my name.

[Thomas]
Right. We’ll make sure to put links to those in the show notes. Thank you for listening to the show. And of course, thank you to Peter J. Wacks for hanging out with us today.

[Peter]
Thank you guys for having me. It was hell of a blast.

[Shep]
Yes, a lot of fun.

[Thomas]
Emily, Shep, and I will return next week for another episode of Almost Plausible.

[Outro music]

[Peter]
Yes, I was having that Hannah Montana moment.

[Emily]
Nice.

[Shep]
Oh, see, now I’m only picturing Hannah Montana in this whole movie.

[Peter]
With Shia LaBeouf as Mussolini.

[Emily]
Yup. Sold.

[Thomas]
Oh, my God.

[Emily]
So sold.

[Thomas]
Now I want to see this.

[Shep]
I didn’t know that I wanted to see that until now.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Shep]
I think Shia LaBeouf would just ham it up as Mussolini, so well.

[Thomas]
Okay, who are we casting as all the major characters then? Because now I want to hear the rest of them. Who’s Churchill?

[Shep]
Oh, uh, who’s the tall-

[Thomas]
Stephen Merchant?

[Shep]
Stephen Merchant.

[Thomas]
I would love to see a tall skinny Churchill. Was he super tall?

[Shep]
No.

[Peter]
I thought it was kind of short.

[Thomas]
Yeah, that’s what I thought. Yeah.

[Shep]
That’s why it’s funny.

[Peter]
He was thin until like the late 30s.

[Thomas]
I love the idea of Churchill with that goofy Stephen Merchant look on his face.

[Emily]
Right?

[Shep]
I mean, I’m on board.

[Thomas]
Or Peter Dinklage. He has presence.

[Emily]
If anyone can pull it off.

[Peter]
We’re really just going to the extremes here.

[Thomas]
Yeah.

[Peter]
I mean, he could.

[Thomas]
Who plays Capone?

[Emily]
Who does play Capone?

[Thomas]
How old would he have been in? He would have been… wait, I’ve got the Al Capone tab here. Hang on. He married at age 19 in 1918, so he would have been in his early twenties. So he would have been roughly the same age as Montana.

[Peter]
OK, are we filming this year or are we doing pre-production and not filming for another year or two?

[Shep]
Who are you thinking?

[Thomas]
We can age people down. It’s fine. Or up.

[Peter]
Finn Wolfhard. Is that his last name? Wolfhard? Finn… Ghostbuster, Stranger Things. Curly haired, lanky. I’m betting that he could deliver the evil, though.

[Shep]
Yeah.

[Peter]
Young Capone?

[Thomas]
Yeah, I like that.

[Peter]
Age him just a little bit.

[Thomas]
I mean, it will be years before this gets made anyway, right?

[Peter]
Exactly. Excuse me, I’m going to just call my agent really quickly.

[Emily]
Just give us a cut, that’s all we ask.

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1 Comments

  1. Arla Kroeze on July 26, 2023 at 8:10 pm

    I appreciate the effort and commitment you put into making this content accessible.

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